Would the Amina 1 work for me?

[Rozojc]

Hello. Apologies for writing in English; I've moved for work earlier this year so my Norwegian right now is not up to par.

The short story is I bought my first EV, and I also just recently bought a house. That being said, I am a complete ignorant in everything related to how anything electric works...

What I do "know" is that the carport (which is detached from the house and about 10-15m away) has a 16amp course that goes from the house fuse box to the carport where there is one light and one outlet... Am I correct to understand that something like the Amina 1 would work for me in minimizing installation costs and that it should be able to run from the existing 16 amp course and this would be allowed since it is a detached garage?

Also, and again pardon my ignorance: how "hard"/expensive would it be to replace that existing 16 amp course with a 32 one (replace it, not out in a new one)?

I appreciate any help!

[RJK]

Hello. Apologies for writing in English; I've moved for work earlier this year so my Norwegian right now is not up to par.

The short story is I bought my first EV, and I also just recently bought a house. That being said, I am a complete ignorant in everything related to how anything electric works...

What I do "know" is that the carport (which is detached from the house and about 10-15m away) has a 16amp course that goes from the house fuse box to the carport where there is one light and one outlet... Am I correct to understand that something like the Amina 1 would work for me in minimizing installation costs and that it should be able to run from the existing 16 amp course and this would be allowed since it is a detached garage?

Also, and again pardon my ignorance: how "hard"/expensive would it be to replace that existing 16 amp course with a 32 one (replace it, not out in a new one)?

I appreciate any help!

To the last part first. Your electrician most likely needs to swap the cable to a new and thicker cable to cope with more amps, ands at the same time swap out the fuse in the fuses cabinet (sikringsskapet) to one suited for that amount of power.

If you have enough intake power, it shouldn't be a big deal, but electricians are not cheap, neither the materials needed. And if you have enough power in, wouldn't be much more expensive or time consuming to add a new outlet compared to upgrading the existing one.

Regarding installing a charger in a carport that is "free standing", it's allowed to share power with the one for the lights and the single output. I'm guessing you have to expect a cost of 2-3 K for the electrician and his time, cable and fuse box maybe in the same area.

Pulling a new cable in the same tube should normally be an easy thing, unless someone screwed up and made "impossible bends" or put other cables in the same tube. In worst case scenario, you may have to pull an new cable in a separate tube, and then cost could go substantially up, but cross my fingers, that doesn't happen to you.

As long as you don't plan on running a Renault with "issues" with IT/TT net, or you have TN-Net to your house, this should be a simple job to get everything up and running and with a legal setup.

Just note that if you have 3-phase TN Net, I would suggest you check with your electrician how much more to run cables for 3-phase, even if you set it up as a 1-phase at the moment. It only requires a different cable which costs a little more, and a fuse that supports 3-phase. It could save you a good chunk of money if you need to or want to upgrade later.

Also, consider 3-phase if your car supports it and you have TN-net. If you need charging for a second car, it's easier to have a "slave unit" on 1-phase while still having the option to charge on 3-phase from the master unit.

And running the charger on 3-phase for lets say 11 kW (3x 3,6 kW) rather than 11 kW on 1-phase, could give you as fast a charging, while at the same time keep you from crossing one or two levels of "effektavgift" (given I understand that part correctly). I guess someone will correct me if i'm wrong on anything here!

Just be aware, Amina 1 doesn't seem to support that. You may have to swap to Easee or Zaptec for that type of setup.

[RJK]

Correcting my self here! Looks like it's total effect that determines "effektavgift", so 3-phase vs 1-phase doesn't really matter in that way.

[Rozojc]

Tha

Correcting my self here! Looks like it's total effect that determines "effektavgift", so 3-phase vs 1-phase doesn't really matter in that way.

Thanks for all the info. I have to admit I don't understand any of the technical part. Can I ask you: how can I tell if my house has 3-phase TN Net? You know, without paying an electrician just to check this?

I also have no idea if my car supports 3 phase (or what that means 🤣). I have an MG 5 if that says anything?

Thanks you again, much appreciated!

[turfsurf]

Thanks for all the info. I have to admit I don't understand any of the technical part. Can I ask you: how can I tell if my house has 3-phase TN Net? You know, without paying an electrician just to check this?

I also have no idea if my car supports 3 phase (or what that means 🤣). I have an MG 5 if that says anything?

You can hav a look at then number of cables to your main fuse. It should be five for 3-phase TN.

Your car supports three phase TN / 16A / 11kW charging.

[turfsurf]

Also, consider 3-phase if your car supports it and you have TN-net. If you need charging for a second car, it's easier to have a "slave unit" on 1-phase while still having the option to charge on 3-phase from the master unit.

And running the charger on 3-phase for lets say 11 kW (3x 3,6 kW) rather than 11 kW on 1-phase, could give you as fast a charging, while at the same time keep you from crossing one or two levels of "effektavgift" (given I understand that part correctly). I guess someone will correct me if i'm wrong on anything here!

Just be aware, Amina 1 doesn't seem to support that. You may have to swap to Easee or Zaptec for that type of setup.

Only Easee supports multiple chargers on one circuit, and it's debatable if this is legal or not. But it's a nice setup.

[RJK]

Thanks for all the info. I have to admit I don't understand any of the technical part. Can I ask you: how can I tell if my house has 3-phase TN Net? You know, without paying an electrician just to check this?

I also have no idea if my car supports 3 phase (or what that means 🤣). I have an MG 5 if that says anything?

You can hav a look at then number of cables to your main fuse. It should be five for 3-phase TN.

Your car supports three phase TN / 16A / 11kW charging.

This is in Norwegian, but you can run the article in google translate by copy-paste the link in the field for the text you need translation for (or run it in chrome browser, and it may give you direct translation according to your settings). Very good article about the differences, and how you can find out in the "sikringsskap".

https://www.naf.no/elbil/lading/1-fas-3-fas-elbil-lading-enfase-trefase

MG 5 EV has support for 11 kW on AC, so that means support for 3-phase on TN-Net.

https://elbil.no/elbiler/mg-5-electric/

[Rozojc]

Thanks so much for all the help. I read in the website shared that "If you have a 230 V IT network - the old power network that is widespread in Norway - you have to make do with single-phase charging"

So it seems this is what I really need to find out. If I can only do single phase, then the Alina 1 sounds like a good option. Otherwise, then something like Zaptec.

Does this make sense?

The house was built in 2011, not sure yet if it is 230 V IT or if that was not used at the time 🤔

[Orbit]

TN vs IT is (mostly) about when the transformer substation covering your area was installed, not the house itself. Thus even a new house in an established housing zone is likely to get IT.

If you have TN, your main breaker panel (sikringsskap) should have a red sticker on the door, saying "400V TN-S" or similar.

[RJK]

Thanks so much for all the help. I read in the website shared that "If you have a 230 V IT network - the old power network that is widespread in Norway - you have to make do with single-phase charging"

So it seems this is what I really need to find out. If I can only do single phase, then the Alina 1 sounds like a good option. Otherwise, then something like Zaptec.

Does this make sense?

The house was built in 2011, not sure yet if it is 230 V IT or if that was not used at the time 🤔

Sounds like a good strategy. Even in new builds, it comes down to what is in the area, or if this is an totally new housing project (new field of houses) where they had to set up a grid connection for this area. Often, they keep using IT rather than change anything if the grid is "stuck" with IT, and the cost of TN becomes to much.

You can post a picture of the "sikringsskap" in here, and also the table on the inside of the door that explains what the different fuses controls (can blind out your meter#), and we can try identify this for you. Or try to notice if your "sikringsskap" has the red or blue sticker om the door, as noted in the NAF-link I posted. May be they didn't start with those stickers yet in 2011.

[Ulvis]

A 'simple' Amina 1 phase at 16A will do you just fine. We have one 20A circuit with two charging boxes, i.e. 4.5 kW, and it is plenty for 2 EVs. It is allways nice to have more "oohmp", but if you are privileged with your private carport/garage and can leave the car charging over night you will probably find it sufficient. Off course, if you drive a very long distance every day, it may not be for you.

@RJK: Just to be picky :-)11kW is not for 1-phase, normally, is it? (Earlier Zoe and trucks, maybe)

[RJK]

SNIP

@RJK: Just to be picky :-)11kW is not for 1-phase, normally, is it? (Earlier Zoe and trucks, maybe)

No, I say 11 kW support tells us it has support for 3-phase, meaning you don't get 11 kW on 1-phase.

That said, early Zoe's supported 64 A to give AC charging, but that still required 400V 3-phase. Though in Norway, we have never supported that much amps, or at least not for private homes.

https://www.elbilgrossisten.no/en/products/renault-zoe-r210-2012-2014

[Rozojc]

A 'simple' Amina 1 phase at 16A will do you just fine. We have one 20A circuit with two charging boxes, i.e. 4.5 kW, and it is plenty for 2 EVs. It is allways nice to have more "oohmp", but if you are privileged with your private carport/garage and can leave the car charging over night you will probably find it sufficient. Off course, if you drive a very long distance every day, it may not be for you.

@RJK: Just to be picky :-)11kW is not for 1-phase, normally, is it? (Earlier Zoe and trucks, maybe)

Thanks.
And if only connected at single phase 16 amps, is that enough power to have the car preheat the battery (or the inside) while plugged in without decreasing battery charge? Hope the question makes sense ...

I do to feel that if I can charge it overnight then 16 amps would probably be enough as I don't have to charge it every night anyway due to low usage.

[turfsurf]

And if only connected at single phase 16 amps, is that enough power to have the car preheat the battery (or the inside) while plugged in without decreasing battery charge? Hope the question makes sense ...

Most cars draw more than 3.6kW (16A) when preheating for a short while, but it won't cause too big a drop in SOC. I wouldn't worry.

[Ulvis]

Thanks.
And if only connected at single phase 16 amps, is that enough power to have the car preheat the battery (or the inside) while plugged in without decreasing battery charge? Hope the question makes sense ...

Your MG-5 has a heatpump that is efficient for heating the coupe. I do not know if it does any battery preconditioning if you have a depature timer set in the nav system.
My LEAF typically draws 3+kW for heating while driving during winter. These cold days I have even seen 4kW. But preheating only draws 8-12 amps, that I have observed so I guess there is a portion pulled from the battery as well. But you can compensate for this by heating for a longer time. As the car heats up it will pull less power for heating and eventually refill the battery.
Depending on your nav system features you can either set a departure timer and let the car handle the rest, or you can start heating via mobile app, scheduled preferably, early enough for your departure to be warm and cozy :-)

I guess it comes down to wether you want to optimize for lowest kWh and/or peak kW (I.e. cost of energy bill) or maximise driving distance at any cost.

By time you will find that you probably do not need 100% charge every day.