Sv: De med levering aug-sept

[Niram1969 .]

Hi,
I'm searching EV forums, trying to find information about temperature sensor in Saxo. I have found out that the car uses 3.3kOhm NTC resistor. The problem is that I do not know exact location.
Apparently, PSA cargo variants have sensor located inside front battery box.  On the other hand, most referrals of Saxo/106 temp. sensors are pointing to NTC located on the radiator.
Since I guess Partner/Berlingo are also having radiator NTC,  is there another temperature sensor on Saxo/P106?
(maybe inside sagembox, besides temp. protecton that was addod in Y3000 type sagemboxes?)

//Marin

[elektrolux]

No such sensor on Saxo/P106.

Temperature on batteries are most likely measured in Sagem box.

[Niram1969 .]

No such sensor on Saxo/P106.

Temperature on batteries are most likely measured in Sagem box.

It looks so.
I am still having problem with throttle/regen at high speeds. I narrowed the nature of error - it is definitely temperature dependent. I went on highway yesterday, environment temp. around 33 C. Regen braking and throttle are not working until speed drops to 78km/h. After that point, everything works fine. Car will again accelerate to max. speed without problem. It will maintain that speed until either throttle is released or over speed protection (downhill road) kicks in. 
If the outside temperature is lower, cut off speed is higher (regen/throttle stops at 88km/h at 27 C).

I'll have to check motor temperature sensor. (I hope there is one ).  Maybe it's feeding wrong values to ECU. (symptoms are present even when the motor is cold). I remember reading somewhere that ECU can derate available power. I just hope that I am on the right track.

//Marin


Det ser så .
Jeg fremdeles har problemer med gass / regen ved høye hastigheter. Jeg snevret natur feil - det er definitivt temperaturavhengig . Jeg gikk på motorveien i går , miljø temp . rundt 33 C. Regen bremsing og gass virker ikke før hastigheten faller til 78km / t. Etter dette punktet, alt fungerer fint . Bilen vil igjen akselerere til maks. hastighet uten problem . Det vil opprettholde denne hastigheten til enten gassen slippes eller over hastighet beskyttelse ( utfor veien ) spark i .
Hvis utetemperaturen er lavere, avskåret hastigheten er høyere ( regen / gass stopper på 88km / t ved 27 C) .

Jeg må sjekke motortemperatur sensor. (Jeg håper det er en ) . Kanskje det er fôring feil verdier til ECU . ( Symptomer er til stede selv når motoren er kald ) . Jeg husker å ha lest et sted at ECU kan redusere belastningen tilgjengelig kraft . Jeg håper bare at jeg er på rett spor .

// Marin

[elektrolux]

There are 2 temp sensors in motor. One in use, and one as back up.

[Niram1969 .]

There are 2 temp sensors in motor. One in use, and one as back up.

Thank you,
Both are number 13 on the picture? (bottom cover plate)
Do you know the NTC resistance values?



//Marin

[OleV]

Hello Niram
I have a simulationerne problem,
Did you solve Your problem?
OleV

[Elmo]

What IS the problem you are facing ?? (both OleV og Niram1969),  apart from that you are searching for the temp sensor . . .

[Niram1969 .]

Hi Elmo,
The symptom is - when driving fast (highway, >85km/h), releasing throttle does not start regen braking, car simply coasts. Another weird issue is that applying throttle again does - nothing. No acceleration at all. Ampermeter needle remains at 0. The car will start to accelerate (or brake) again when speed decreases to certain temperature dependent value. In summer (outside temp. >30C), my Saxo would refuse to be awaken before speed of 78km/h.
So if I was driving, lets say 85km/h, releasing throttle for any reason would effectively shut of car until its speed dropped to 78km/h. If I was to keep feeding motor with current, the car would run until the end of the world. Practical problems are downhills. Even if I kept minimal input current, motor management would cut of motor supply at 96km/h when over-speed limit kicks in. I would hurled downhill at over 100km/h just to find that the car is "dead". When big loaded Scania is on your back - not very pleasant moment. I could understand truck driver frustration with the guy slowing down on highway for no apparent reason.  Emergency lanes proved to be very helpful at such moments.

So far, I have definitely found that "cut-off" speed is temperature dependent. Yesterday I tested the car again (after long time). Symptom appeared at 91km/h. (12C outside temp.)

//Marin

P.S. I would usually not be bothered with this thing, but on summer I usually take long highway rides (up to 400km a day) and then it really matters.

[Elmo]

OK, so that is the problem.
In early days of PSA in Norway this was considered that this was caused by bad commutator.
I know two persons who have had this problem. Both disassembled the motor, washed it and had the communtator "fixed" (I dont know the English word for it - the best I can find from google trans is "cut on the lathe").
The problem disapeared for both of them, but later I have heard that probably it was the washing rather than the "commutator fixing" that solved it.

[Niram1969 .]

Elmo,
Thank you for sharing those information. I have checked collector and it looks nothing but perfect. Nice clean edges without any sparking damage whatsoever. I have yet to check roundness, I'll have to make holder for measuring tools. If necessary, I have lathe capable of handling rotor of that size, and I am not afraid to use it.

But engine "washing" could be the trick. Maybe the temperature sensor is dirty (coal dust) and thus feeding wrong information to motor management.

I regularly perform compressed air cleaning. But of course, that is no replacement for engine dismantling and cleaning. I guess sensor is located well inside motor where air hose cannot reach.

Should I discover anything, I'll report on forum.

//Marin

[Helge]

I have two 2013 Saxo Electrique and one P106 Electric. The problem described here is found only in one of my Saxoes. The previous owner had tried to "clean" away dust from the brushes by using compressed air.... He also did that before I picked up the car when I bought it. That actually seemed to make the problem worse since during the first couple of months the problem occurred at as low speeds as 60 km/h! For reasons I do not know the "speed limit" where the problem occured slowly increased and are now between 85 and 90 km/h.

My only suggestion to a possible cause for the problem is dust from the brushes causing poor electric insulation in the motor that may result in this problem when shifting from motor to generator (regen) mode. That fits quite well with reports of motor washing helping to fix the problem. I have however not tried to wash the motor in that Saxo yet!

[Elmo]

This is contagious 
My daughter is borrowing one og my P106es, and the other day she told me that the car acts strange. Kind of  like when a petrolcars runs out of petrol.
So today I took it for a "spin".  When I let go of the speeder at high speed it does not regenerate at first. And after retardation the speeder does not work at first. I also checked the rushes and commutator and find everything OK.

This is the symptoms you are talking about . . . yes ??

I seriously do not think this has got anything to do this temperature. It is only 8-9 celsius here today.

[elektrolux]

Pretty sure its coal dust between ground and bruch holders in motor causing this. Very little distance here, and using compressed air to shift dust probably makes situation worse not better.

[Niram1969 .]

This is the symptoms you are talking about . . . yes ??

I seriously do not think this has got anything to do this temperature. It is only 8-9 celsius here today.

Exactly! The very same symptoms.
Do you remember what was the speed when car started to accelerate (or brake) again?

//Marin

[Niram1969 .]

Pretty sure its coal dust between ground and bruch holders in motor causing this. Very little distance here, and using compressed air to shift dust probably makes situation worse not better.

That may be the culprit.
Although, last time I checked, brushes were only 4mm worn, (wear rate is about 1mm per 10000km so far). Motor looks very clean. Let me put it this way - I think my wife would let me repair it in the living room.

//Marin