Sv: Piggfridekk i-miev

[haakon88t]

Excel,

I have the same heater problem on my car. I will check the sensor on mine as well. But how did you find out that is was the temp sensor? Fault message?
Was the resistance on the pins not as expected?

[EXCEL]

Excel,

I have the same heater problem on my car. I will check the sensor on mine as well. But how did you find out that is was the temp sensor? Fault message?
Was the resistance on the pins not as expected?

Hi

I took the heater inside on the workbench. Did the standard measurement on the connector and concluded that it was OK.
Then I made a setup with 230VAC trough a fuse and then trough a rectifier (approx. 322VDC).
Then filed the heater with water and put the power on. I noticed that the heater started and then stopped when the water got warmer.
Based upon the intermittent behaviour of the heater I suspected a fault in the sensor. When I opened the copper tube I discovered that one of the wires was loos –only hold in place by the glue and not the solder. To make sure I mounted a new sensor, LM335Z/TO92.
   

[Poppe]

My son is now very tired to go to university with random heating so this afternoon we decided to try to fix the mostly  disconnected temp sensor.
We took out the heater, dismantled it and managed to remove the screw/nut around the copper tube.
The copper tube can now be pushed up/down (with some force) or be twisted about 120 degrees but that is all. It can not be pulled up due to the bend in the lower part. It can not be pulled down since it then hits the heating tubes. If I cut it in between the heating tubes there is no way I could make a solid solder after fixing the intermittent connection.

It seems I have to remove both heating tubes before removing the copper tube, is it really that bad ?

[BauDemo]

I hope you are making photos?

[Poppe]

Nikolay, I thought I you had an answer for me 

Yes, I will document as I go along.

[BauDemo]

Nikolay, I thought I you had an answer for me 

I am sorry - I have never opened such heater, and know very little about it.
In fact I bought a very expensive "replacement" from calix year ago.

So I am hoping that you or someone else would figure this nasty design out.

[Poppe]

Getting the tube out was really a bitch. Now i need a new piece of copper tubing.
Unfortunatly there is no bad connection so my hope is that the sensor is broken. Anyone have any info on how to check it for broken ?
I measured it with an ohmmeter and it is about 36kOhm in both directions which seem a little strange for something described as a zener diod thingy.

I have pictures to upload later.

[Poppe]

A new development, the big fuse is now blown which is probably why the heater has been totally inactive the last few months but it could not possibly be the cause of intermittent function before that.

Why does the fuse blow ?

[Warlock]

It is clamed that fuse have a "selfdestruct" circuit loop to kill itself if the unit gets too hot. However, since the internal fuse of the heater is 56A and the fuse in the PCU is 20-25A its still a mystery why it blows. It might be a current spike, a "coil effect", form the other fuse blowing tho...

[Poppe]

Unless someone has a new pcb, the one that goes inside the bottom of the heater to sell, this is the end of the road.
As you can see from the picture I managed to work myself down through the polyurethane whit the help of a heat gun and a screwdriver. Without heat the PU is very tough to work but heat makes it more brittle and it is possible to remove it in small chunks. You have to take it easy with the heat though since if the PU starts to smoke it is toxic. Working outside can be recommended.

Another problem is that the PU adhere very good to the smd components on the pcb and at least one capacitor came out with a chunk of PU. I have it and knows where it was but I will probably have to remove all the PU to be able to get the pcb out to resolder. The fat cables laying alla over is not much of a help either.

I will most likely try to get hold of a fuel burning heater instead.

[Stromskap378V]

Hey, hva en varmeovn konstruksjon. Bra at dette blir diskutert.

Power current elevator= utløser sikringen ved shorting. Ikke tro!
Fuse i tetningsmasse. Fuck!

Vel, er HVDC et IT-system (isolert Terra) og farlig spenning.
Beskyttelse av nedleggelse/ beskjed (de=Schutz durch Abschaltung / Meldung)_
isolasjonsfeil  og noen andre feil mulig. Kontrollen kommer fra CDCM enhet =f (Cabin-temperatur).

Utsikt Circuit HVDC:
Høy kortslutningsstrøm_  resulterer i korte turn-off_ egenskaper konvergerer_ no selektivitet
Sketch kjennetegn ved 20A og 56A sikringer.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2e4U9RrFSvTamR2Z1UwbkhOTTg/view?usp=sharing

Nedenfor gjennom kurvene sammen. Konfrontasjon kurve Thermal tur.

Strøm gjennom sikringer er ikke DC eller AC / 50 eller 60 Hz.
Lurer på hva innflytelse PWM-modulert strøm til utløser.
(Lignende spørsmål i sikring for ELTEK Charger Traction batteri.
20A fast blow / PCU Fuse Board -FU5)
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/fuses/littelfuse_fuse_505_datasheet.pdf.pdf

Med dyptfølt  sympati
Hvem vet hvor lenge min pot still oppvarmet.                                   HANS

[Poppe]

Hans

Your message is the first in this entire four pages long thread that is not in English. Its not even in Norwegian but in google Norwegian and I cant understand close to anything of your reply.
I was hoping some of the locals would come in and help me out which is why I have waited a while with my answer. Maybe they dont understand either !?

Please come back with your answer in any other language, french, german, catalan but of course english is prefered.

[Stromskap378V]

Da habe ich dem Translater zu viel zugetraut. Entschuldigung.
Möchte mich besonders für die Heater Information bedanken!
Meine Überlegungen zur 20 und 56A Sicherung wollte ich nur mitteilen.

Was für eine Heizer Bauweise. Gut, daß dies besprochen wird.

Power current elevator= Auslösung der Sicherung mittels Kurzschluß. Nicht zu glauben!
Sicherung in Vergußmasse. Fuck!

Nun gut, HVDC ist ein IT-System (isolated Terra) und gefährliche Spannung.
Schutz durch Abschaltung_    Isolationsfehler sowie einige andere Fehler möglich.
Die Steuerung kommt vom CDCM unit =f(Cabin-Temperatur).

Betrachtung Stromkreis HVDC:
Hoher Kurzschlußstrom_ ergibt kurze Abschaltzeit_ Kennlinien konvergieren_ keine Selektivität
Skizze Kennlinien der 20A und 56A Sicherungen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2e4U9RrFSvTamR2Z1UwbkhOTTg/view?usp=sharing
Unten laufen die Kennlinien zusammen. Gegenüberstellung Kurve Thermischer Auslöser.

Strom durch Sicherungen ist nicht DC und auch nicht AC / 50 or 60Hz.
Frage mich, welchen Einfluß hat PWM modulierter Strom auf die Auslösung.
(Ähnliche Frage bei der Sicherung zum ELTEK Charger Traction Battery. Auslösung auch unbekannt.)
20A fast blow / PCU Fuse Board -FU5
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/fuses/littelfuse_fuse_505_datasheet.pdf.pdf

Mit herzlicher Anteilnahme
Wer weiß, wie lange mein Topf noch heizt.                             HANS
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Trying english:
Since I have the Translate credited too much. Sorry.
Want to thank especially for Heater Information!
My reflections on the 20 and 56A fuse I just wanted to say.

What a heater construction. Good that this is discussed.
Power current elevator = triggering the fuse by shorting. Incredible!
Assurance encapsulant. Fuck!
Well, HVDC is an IT system (isolated Terra) and hazardous voltage.
Protection by Abschaltung_ insulation fault and some other errors possible.
The control comes from CDCM unit = f (Cabin-temperature).
Contemplation Circuit HVDC:
High short circuit current results in short turn-off characteristics converge no selectivity
Sketch characteristics of the 20A and 56A fuses.
Down through the curves together. Confrontation curve Thermal trip.
Current through fuses is not DC nor AC / 50 or 60Hz.
Wonder what influence PWM-modulated current to the triggering.
(Similar question in securing for ELTEK Charger Traction Battery. Also unknown blowing)
20A almost blow / PCU Fuse Board -FU5

With heartfelt sympathy
Who knows how long my pot still heated.

[Stromskap378V]

>PTC-Heater< a alternative ?
It's only information / PTC Retro-Fit Instructions 10-15-2012 / 2.6MiB:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2e4U9RrFSvTOVFSZHBaWi1GcWs/view?usp=sharing
Urspr. Yahoo Groups / think_ev

Someone knows:
Function details ? Versus block diagram ?  Power ?

[Additional info: There is a open question in US about HVDC pre charge resistor burning.]
HANS

[Poppe]

Very interesting !
It looked very promising until the reprogram bit appeared. I have no access to such a tool.