Sv: Skiftet til sommerdekk?

[Ciumpalac]

The title explains it, and yes I have read PSA wiki on what to do in such situations, and I have tried the usual, (resetting the electronics by disconnecting the "hovedsikring" & 12V battery, retracting the accelerator, making sure the door is closed..) but the car does not light up green when I turn the key.

Here are the symptoms:
1. Light for electric fault lights up - but this has always been the case since I got the car in June 2013. The seller told me this is normal, and I have not experienced problems because of this. Probably because of moisture in the motor - after all I am living in Bergen and drive through water all the time.
2. When I turn the key, the battery shows that its 92% charged. The day before, I had charged the car to 100% in the city, and drove home about 8km without problems, parked the car for the night. The temperature dropped to around 0 degrees during the night, but was not exceptionally cold. The next morning, car wouldn't start.
3. No other warning lights are visible on the dashboard, the water pump is functioning normally, and the 12V service battery is charged to 13,7 volts.
4. Little bit of gear oil leakeage onto the motor cover, it has always been that way since I got the car.

The car had been showing some strange signs prior to this, which may or may not be related to the car refusing to start. Starting last October, the car began losing power (for a couple of seconds) while driving. This happened  when I had been using the Webasto warmer for about 15-20 minutes. When I was driving on flat ground at a constant speed, the car would suddenly lose power for a couple of seconds, as if I had lifted my foot off the accelerator (even though I had been keeping the accelerator steady). When I pushed the accelerator deeper, the car would drive with normal speed. And as soon as I stop the Webasto heater, the car would be driving normally.

Since then whenever I use the Webasto heater, I stop it after 10-15 minutes and turn it off. That way I was sure the car would drive as it should, and my tactic had worked - until 2 weeks ago, when I lost power (again, just for 1 or 2 seconds) with the Webasto turned OFF. It had been turned off for the entire journey. I also experienced the symptom of reduced speed one week ago in the parking house when I was turning the wheel sharply and pressing on the accelarator at the same time. Again, the car would slow down as if I had lifted my foot off the gas pedal.

Apart from that, I had no problems in day to day driving. I could keep up with traffic, I was driving in the "green" zone 99% of the time, my driving/charging pattern wasn't harming the batteries. The range was about 50-60km until the battery was down to 20%. The brushes had been changed by the previous owner, and since then the car had only driven about 3000kms.

When I removed the "hovedsikring", I noticed some green oxidization on the metal, so I removed that with sandpaper. I know that there are also such "sikring" at the bottom of the car (2 by the motor), do you think that moisture buildup has lead to oxidization, causing bad connection at those points? The car is parked outside as I do not have a garage and since this is Bergen, the car is driven most of the time through puddles of water. Could this be the reason? Do I need to dry the components such as the motor and the elektronisk boks? In my opinion, the batteries shouldn't be the cause because it always charges all the way to 100%, and holds a steady charge.

[Elmo]

1. Light for electric fault lights up - but this has always been the case since I got the car in June 2013. The seller told me this is normal, and I have not experienced problems because of this. Probably because of moisture in the motor - after all I am living in Bergen and drive through water all the time.

It's correct that several of these cars drive for years with the "electric fault" lit due to Insulation fault i the motor. But, a shortcirquit in the motor may also happen at any time.

2. When I turn the key, the battery shows that its 92% charged. The day before, I had charged the car to 100% in the city, and drove home about 8km without problems, parked the car for the night. The temperature dropped to around 0 degrees during the night, but was not exceptionally cold. The next morning, car wouldn't start.
3. No other warning lights are visible on the dashboard, the water pump is functioning normally, and the 12V service battery is charged to 13,7 volts.

How far in the starting-process do you get?
Do you get the click when turning the key all the way?
Do you get the "green car" and can you shift to reverse gear (orange car)?

If you dont get the green car, it may be the motion-sensor on the motor that is bad.
If you get everything except reaction when you press the speeder, then I'd say you have a broken motor which in 95% of cases break the motorcontroller too.

Starting last October, the car began losing power (for a couple of seconds) while driving. . . When I was driving on flat ground at a constant speed, the car would suddenly lose power for a couple of seconds, as if I had lifted my foot off the accelerator (even though I had been keeping the accelerator steady). When I pushed the accelerator deeper, the car would drive with normal speed.

I doubt very much that there is a real link to the use of Webasto here.
Usually when you experience such strange loss of power it is due to worn commutator on the motor-anchor. This will also usually result in excessive wear of the bruches, and evetually broken motor.

[Ciumpalac]

Thanks for your reply Elmo,

It's correct that several of these cars drive for years with the "electric fault" lit due to Insulation fault i the motor. But, a shortcirquit in the motor may also happen at any time.

Ok, how do I test if I have a shortcirquit in my motor? In the starting process, I don't get the green car or the orange car when I turn the key.

How do I access the motion-sensor, and how do I test to see if it is ok? Could you also tell me the Norwegian word for motion sensor so I can search for it?
Is it easy to change the commutator on the motor anchor, and how to access it?

Sorry many questions, but I have no experience with such cars...

[Ciumpalac]

I have opened the motor cover to look at the commutator and the brushes. There was oil inside and on the cover, and the commutator looked black. I am not sure if this is burn marks or just oil mixed with worn brushes...Surely this is not good for the motor, but is this the cause of the car not starting? Anybody have any idea?

[Goodrun]

Did you check the fuses and shunts under the car? Sounds to me it could be a bad connection somewhere. Commutator is not replaceable it's an integral part of the anchor/ rotor. Fixing the commutator is a workshop job, not sure if anyone does that in Norway.

[Elmo]

The oilspill is not good and calls for a workshop job soon regardless of it is the reason why is does not go.

Fixing the commutator is a workshop job, not sure if anyone does that in Norway.

Elbilmek at Fornebu, just outside Oslo, does this.

[Elmo]

Did you check the fuses and shunts under the car? Sounds to me it could be a bad connection somewhere.

Check out this item. If you cannot read the Norwegian the pictures should give you some idea anyway I guess.

[Ciumpalac]

Did you check the fuses and shunts under the car? Sounds to me it could be a bad connection somewhere.

Thanks for the response, Goodrun! I checked under the car and it didn't seem like there was any problems there, apart from the gear oil leakeage. In the SAGEM box, the readings from the green& red contacts indicate that main batteries measure 133V, the 12V battery measures 13,4V. Nothing from the two contacts on the right though...Maybe this is where the problem lies?

[Ciumpalac]

Check out this item. If you cannot read the Norwegian the pictures should give you some idea anyway I guess.

Thanks Elmo, I know enough Norwegian to understand 80% of the posts on this forum, its just that my writing skills do not permit me to explain the car's symptoms in detail. Also I wanted imput from people in Finland, UK, Poland etc..

Anyway I was checking out this post you mentioned. So this part lies in the 6er battery box by the motor. What is the best way to access them? I only have basic tools at my disposal.

[Elmo]

There are 2 main-fuses on each battery-box, 6 in total (actually 3 fuses and 3 shunts, but they look almost the same).  You seem to be missing that there is a 11er batterybox between the rear wheels ?
The battery connectors that are worn in the pictures are the connectors from the fuses to the batteries inside the batteryboxes so you have to remove the boxes to access them.

In the SAGEM box, the readings from the green& red contacts indicate that main batteries measure 133V

I think you may still measure 133v without load, if you have a bad or poor connection somewhere.

Nothing from the two contacts on the right though...Maybe this is where the problem lies?

The rights ones go to the motor so they should be 0v unless to accellerate.

Recently someone posted (even in English i think) how to check the motor by measuring the red and blue wires to the top right in this picture but I cant find it now.

[Elmo]

Recently someone posted (even in English i think) how to check the motor by measuring the red and blue wires  . .

Found it   http://elbilforum.no/forum/index.php/topic,11541.msg177839.html#msg177839

[Ciumpalac]

Recently someone posted (even in English i think) how to check the motor by measuring the red and blue wires  . .

I will try this one, thanks again! But how to take out the batteries and which points I should disconnect? Especially the 11er in the back would be heavy. Would I use something like this http://www.biltema.no/no/Bil---MC/Verktoy-og-verkstedutstyr/Lofteverktoy/Garasjejekk-2-tonn-15847/

I downloaded the Danish work manual but its not clear on such issues

[Elmo]

But how to take out the batteries and which points I should disconnect? Especially the 11er in the back would be heavy. Would I use something like this http://www.biltema.no/no/Bil---MC/Verktoy-og-verkstedutstyr/Lofteverktoy/Garasjejekk-2-tonn-15847/

Certainly not that lift!.  Rather this one or this one.

I guess you have read this description already. There is also something here and here   (looks like I need to update the wiki).

[Ciumpalac]

Certainly not that lift!.  Rather this one or this one.

I guess you have read this description already. There is also something here and here   (looks like I need to update the wiki).

This is great! I will start hunting for supplies at Biltema. In the meanwhile, I tested the red & blue wires, resistance is over 10ohms between the two. I guess that means the motor is not the problem, but I will also need to check the speed sensor to be sure that is not the cause.

[Elmo]

I tested the red & blue wires, resistance is over 10ohms between the two. I guess that means the motor is not the problem, but I will also need to check the speed sensor to be sure that is not the cause.

The motorcontroller (in the bottom of the Sagem) may be damaged even if the motor is OK, but in most cases the motor goes first and brakes the motorcontroller too.

I have read that a small number og these cars have problem with the speeder-resistance, and needs new computer parameters loaded every ones in a while.  The evLite is not og much help then. You need a Lexia3 or similar. Those have become surprisingly cheap lately. Think I paid 10 times this. Requres a laptop with XP.